Seldon shrugged. "I wouldn't care to make a judgment in that matter."
"Or you must have powerful friends."
"We would all like to have powerful friends, Mr. Joranum, but I think you will find none here. University professors rarely have powerful friends or, I sometimes think, friends of any kind." He smiled.
And so did Joranum. "Wouldn't you consider the Emperor a powerful friend, Professor Seldon?"
"I certainly would, but what has that to do with me?"
"I am under the impression that the Emperor is a friend of yours."
"I'm sure the records will show, Mr. Joranum, that I had an audience with His Imperial Majesty eight years ago. It lasted perhaps an hour or less and I saw no signs of any great friendliness in him at the time. Nor have I spoken to him since-or even seen him-except on holovision, of course."
"But, Professor, it is not necessary to see or speak to the Emperor to have him as a powerful friend. It is sufficient to see or speak to Eto Demerzel, the Emperor's First Minister. Demerzel is your protector and, since he is, we may as well say the Emperor is."
"Do you find First Minister Demerzel's supposed protection of me anywhere in the records? Or anything at all in the records from which you can deduce that protection?"
"Why search the records when it is well known that there is a connection between the two of you. You know it and I know it. Let us take it then as given and continue. And please"-he raised his hands-"do not take the trouble to give me any heartfelt denials. It's a waste of time."
"Actually," said Seldon, "I was going to ask why you should think that he would want to protect me. To what end?"
"Professor? Are you trying to hurt me by pretending to think I am a monster of naivete? I mentioned your psychohistory, which Demerzel wants."
"And I told you that it was a youthful indiscretion that came to nothing."
"You may tell me a great many things, Professor. I am not compelled to accept what you tell me. Come, let me speak frankly. I have read your original paper and have tried to understand it with the help of some mathematicians on my staff. They tell me it is a wild dream and quite impossible-"
"I quite agree with them," said Seldon.
"But I have the feeling that Demerzel is waiting for it to be developed and put to use. And if he can wait, so can I. It would be more useful to you, Professor Seldon, to have me wait."
"Why so?"
"Because Demerzel will not endure in his position for much longer. Public opinion is turning against him steadily. It may be that when the Emperor wearies of an unpopular First Minister who threatens to drag the throne down with him, he will find a replacement. It may even be my poor self whom the Emperor's fancy will seize upon. And you will still need a protector, someone who can see to it that you can work in peace and with ample funds for whatever you need in the way of equipment and assistants."
"And would you be that protector?"
"Of course-and for the same reason that Demerzel is. I want a successful psychohistoric technique so that I can rule the Empire more efficiently."
Seldon nodded thoughtfully, waited a moment, then said, "But in that case, Mr. Joranum, why must I concern myself in this? I am a poor scholar, living a quiet life, engaged in out-of-the-way mathematical and pedagogical activities. You say that Demerzel is my present protector and that you will be my future protector. I can go quietly about my business, then. You and the First Minister may fight it out. Whoever prevails, I have a protector still-or, at least, so you tell me."
Joranum's fixed smile seemed to fade a bit. Namarti, at his side, turned his dour face toward Joranum and made as though to say something, but Joranum's hand moved slightly and Namarti coughed and did not speak.
Joranum said, "Dr. Seldon. Are you a patriot?"
"Why, of course. The Empire has given humanity millennia of peace-mostly peace, at any rate-and fostered steady advancement."
"So it has-but at a slower pace in the last century or two."
Seldon shrugged. "I have not studied such matters."
"You don't have to. You know that, politically, the last century or two has been a time of turmoil. Imperial reigns have been short and sometimes have been shortened further by assassination-"
"Even mentioning that," put in Seldon, "is close to treason. I'd rather you didn't-"
"Well, there." Joranum threw himself back in his seat. "See how insecure you are. The Empire is decaying. I'm willing to say so openly. Those who follow me do so because they know only too well it is. We need someone at the Emperor's right hand who can control the Empire, subdue the rebellious impulses that seem to be arising everywhere, give the armed forces the natural leadership they should have, lead the economy-"
Seldon made an impatient stopping motion with his arm. "And you're the one to do it, are you?"
"I intend to be the one. It won't be an easy job and I doubt there would be many volunteers-for good reason. Certainly Demerzel can't do it. Under him, the decline of the Empire is accelerating to a total breakdown."
"But you can stop it?"
"Yes, Dr. Seldon. With your help. With psychohistory."
"Perhaps Demerzel could stop the breakdown with psychohistory-if psychohistory existed."
Joranum said calmly, "It exists. Let us not pretend it does not. But its existence does not help Demerzel. Psychohistory is only a tool. It needs a brain to understand it and an arm to wield it."
"And you have those, I take it?"